Laurel Johnson of Midwest Book Review - Interview of Marshall Thomas

I wanted to interview Marshall Thomas because I so enjoyed his sci fi novel, Soldier Of The Legion, recently released by Timberwolf Press.

LJ for MBR: Joining the ranks of published author has not happened overnight for you, Marshall. Tell us about your writing history, and the years that came before this. I ask that question because I believe sharing your history will provide hope for authors who think their work will never be published.

Marshall: Thanks, Laurel. I sure fit the category of authors who thought their work would never be published. I've just turned 60 and recently retired from the Foreign Service after serving many years overseas. My first science fiction novel is just now being published. It was a long hard road that started when I was a teenager. I discovered science fiction in 1958, fell in love with the genre and consumed all the pulp SF I could find. Ever since then I've wanted to write SF. I was never interested in writing short stories. I just wanted to write an exciting SF novel. I started many stories when I was younger but didn't persist and never finished any of them. At that age I didn't have the writing skills or the determination to persevere. However I kept scribbling every chance I had. My girl friends were impressed by my love letters, but that was the only literary feedback I received in those days.

My career kept me quite busy and my writing ambitions didn't re-emerge until 1982 when I was 40 and serving in Bangkok. By that time I wasn't reading SF any more but I was still interested in writing SF. I decided I wanted to write a good SF story, and finally finish something. I made the decision to avoid reading any more SF stories because I did not want to be influenced by them. I wanted my story to be mine alone. When I started writing, the computer revolution was just emerging. I bought some Apple and IBM clones and had the usual adventures. It was a little discouraging when I deleted my entire novel, but I eventually learned how to deal with the computer. Despite the computer revolution, I wrote and edited my novels long-hand, then typed them into the computer later.

I was originally writing because I loved to write. I really enjoyed it, putting it all down on paper and finding the right words and phrases to inspire emotions, thoughts, maybe even tears. I wanted to write action scenes that drew the reader right in; I wanted the reader to feel all the emotions that my characters did. Of course I had no readers - only me. This was in the old days when being on the other side of the world meant you were almost totally isolated from the States. There wasn't any e-mail then, and if you wanted to communicate with anyone you wrote a letter. It could take weeks or months to get a response. I didn't know who to write to anyway. I didn't know any other writers to advise me. So I read my own work, totally isolated. At first I didn't want to show my work to anyone. I was kind of like Gollum in The Lord Of The Rings. My novel was 'My Precious' and it was mine, all mine, and I didn't want anyone else even looking at it. I had a lot of blood, sweat and tears invested in it and I thought it was good. My fear was that somebody might read it and say "That's really awful." I wasn't quite ready for that, at the time. I learned later that accepting constructive criticism is the only way to grow as a writer.

When I finished my first novel, Soldier Of The Legion, I was so inspired that I immediately began writing a sequel, Slave of the Legion. I was doing this in the little spare time that I had, generally between 10 and 11 at night, or at odd times on the weekends. I kept writing frantically during four years in Bangkok and four years in Manila. I was still isolated from the writing community. I had no idea how to structure a novel. I had no idea what the rules of writing were. I didn't have any writing books to guide me in building my novel. I just wrote it, and discovered what was effective as I wrote. In my next assignment, Canberra, I did the third book, Secret of the Legion, and in my last tour, Kuala Lumpur, I finished the fourth story, Cross of the Legion.

Publication wasn't on my Things To Do Today list when I started writing. It wasn't until 1992, in Canberra, when I was 50, that I decided to look for a publisher. I had put all that work and emotion into these stories, and I thought they were good, but I didn't know they were good. I slowly came to realize that the only sure proof I'd have that they were good - the only way I'd know I was a good writer - was if I could get them published. If I could get a publishing professional to bet real money that my novel would sell, that was a pretty good indication that I was a good writer. That was my motivation for publication - I wanted to know if I was a good writer. I began submitting the first story, Soldier of the Legion, to every SF publisher I could find.

I learned quickly that rejection letters were part of the game, and decided that I was going to continue submitting query letters and sample chapters until somebody said yes. I knew that it didn't matter how many rejection letters I accumulated. The trick was not to get discouraged. I knew I needed only one acceptance letter - just one. I was determined to never give up. I was prepared to submit indefinitely.

When I returned to the States in 1998, I started to improve my writing. I did this by getting into a small on-line unpublished writers group headed by Nancy Mehl. We exchanged chapters and critiqued each others work. I was amazed at the things I learned. When you stare at the same novel for 20 years, you stop seeing it after awhile. The fresh eyes in the writers group pointed out some serious mistakes I was making. I corrected the mistakes. The novel improved. My submissions got better. By the time I fixed it up, Soldier of the Legion was quite different from what it had been. I shudder when I think of how bad some of those early versions were.

In October, 1998, I spotted Timberwolf Press on the web and queried. After a very lengthy correspondence and quite a bit of re-writing, I signed a contract in July, 2000. Two years of editing followed. It's now September 2002 and my novel is just seeing print.

Final score card: Rejections from Agents: 32. Rejections from publishers: 52. Acceptances from publishers: 1. That last one is the only one that's important.

Best Advice: Never give up! Keep improving your skills, keep submitting and never lose hope. With a little luck, you'll do it a lot faster than I did.

LJ for MBR: My goodness! What a terrific testimonial to perseverence your answer is! So many writers get discouraged after years of rejections. I'm happy you weren't one of them.

You mentioned that Soldier of the Legion is the first in a series. How soon can we expect the second to appear? Are you currently working on it, or is it already in the publication process?

Marshall: The full series includes Soldier Of The Legion, Slave Of The Legion, Secret Of The Legion, and Cross Of The Legion. All four books are finished. I plan to stay with Timberwolf Press as long as they like the stories. I've sent them the outlines for all four stories but have not yet submitted the second one in the series, Slave of the Legion. As soon as the first story is officially in print, I'll begin editing and slightly re-organizing the second one. It shouldn't take too long. When that's done I'll formally submit it to Timberwolf. Since I now know what Timberwolf is looking for, publication of the second one in the series shouldn't take as long as the first one. I can't estimate how long it will take. Hopefully people are going to buy the first and second books and if they do we'll move on to the third and fourth books.

I love these stories and I hope that others will love them too. There is a wide-ranging cast of characters, and they undergo perilous adventures in a very hostile galaxy. These experiences have a profound effect on them.

LJ for MBR: Well I loved the book and I was never a fan of the genre. But I am now!

You mentioned Timberwolf Press. I interviewed Patrick Seaman of Timberwolf this month and found him to be quite personable as well as savvy. Tell our readers more about the editing process you went through with Soldier of the Legion before Timberwolf signed off on it.

Marshall: This was an interesting and educational process for me. Not having been published before, I had no idea what to expect. Here's how it went. I queried Timberwolf in early October 1998, sending a summary. They responded in late October saying their calendar was full but suggesting that I try again in six months. I think that meant they liked what they saw, otherwise they wouldn't have encouraged me to try again. In early January 1999 they e-mailed me, saying their calendar had opened up and asking me to send them three chapters. I did so.

In mid-May they asked me to send the manuscript, which I did. In mid-August they asked if the novel was still available. I answered on the same day, at light speed, that it was. In early September I sent a plaintive e-mail asking if anyone was there. I learned that publishers are busy - months can roll past with no contact.

In early December I received an e-mail saying the book needed more hard science and asking if I could do it. I told them I could, and sent proof. In early February 2000 Timberwolf suggested I stick to one POV, change some annoying tense shifts, cut 25 to 50,000 words and resubmit. I murdered several of my beloved chapters and sent the revised manuscript in late February. In May they asked for a character summary and another outline and I sent them.

In July they asked if the work was still available. I answered YES! YESYESYESYESYES! On 18 July, 2000, they sent me a contract. I was overjoyed. I had done it! Now I could relax, and wait for the money to roll in. Wrong! The hard stuff hadn't even started!

I was lucky to sign with Timberwolf. They take a very hands-on approach to their stories and as a result I learned a lot. The editing process, in this case, took two more years. They certainly weren't working on my book for two years, but it was two years before the task was over. They had other books to publish and didn't turn their attention to mine until the earlier books were launched. I worked closely with the Publisher, Patrick Seaman, and the Chief Editor Carol Wood, answering their questions and sending them lots of material to explain the SF world that I had created. We edited that book so many times that I lost count. First Timberwolf would edit it, line by line, looking at every word in the story to make sure it was right. Plenty of changes were made during the process. Then they'd send it back to me and I would edit it, line by line, every word. Then I'd send it back to them and they'd again edit it. Then they'd send it back to me. By the time the process was over, a whole lot of knowledgeable people had been through the text, repeatedly. And with Timberwolf it wasn't just the paperback text, They were also making my story into audio format. They were using actors to record the full text of the story in audio and then producing cassette tapes, audio CD's and e-books besides the paperback. That meant more editing, of the audio text. When I considered how much money they were pouring into the effort, I decided they must like my story.

Writing is fun. Editing is not fun - at least for me, and I suspect for most other writers. It's very important, however. Good editing can turn a wordy, overblown, meandering, sleepy chapter into a focused, precise instrument to hit the reader right between the eyes. That's what you want - but you have to be tough. You have to cut out that extra verbiage like a surgeon. Sometimes you have to cut it out like a butcher. Sometimes you have to drop entire chapters - that hurts. I could hear my characters screaming in agony as I ripped them out of the book. Nobody at Timberwolf ever told me to make it longer. They always wanted it shorter.

One point I'd like to make for first-time authors: when a potential publisher asks for changes to be made to your story, you would be wise to comply. They have a lot of people sending stories in for publication and if you're not cooperative, I strongly suspect your story will go right into the wastebasket.

LJ for MBR: Thanks for that explanation, Marshall. I doubt that many authors have experienced editing of the calibre your book went through. Like you said, it's a learning experience many of us would find beneficial. Such focused and concise editing surely showed in the finished product and added an intensity that might not have been possible otherwise.

You've told us about your background, but I would like to know what lead you to embrace the sci fi genre. Have you loved sci fi all your life, and who are your favorite authors in the genre?

Marshall: I discovered science fiction in 1958, when I was 16, and spotted a book called Star Bridge by Jack Williamson and James Gunn. I thought it was an amazing and imaginative story. It inspired me to read more SF. In those days they would publish pulp SF with two novels in one paperback book. I bought a whole lot of them, or at least all I could find in the Panama Canal Zone, which is where my Dad was stationed at the time. I thought one of the best was Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein, although I liked everything he wrote. I read most of the great SF writers of that era, people like Isaac Asimov, Arthur C Clarke, Lester del Rey, Poul Anderson, Robert Silverberg, Harry Harrison, and many, many more. Of course I also read all the earlier masters like Jules Verne, H.G. Wells and George Orwell. I can't resist adding J.R.R. Tolkien, even though he did fantasy and not science fiction. These people were magicians, to me. They'd create their own worlds, and drop you into them. I decided quite early on that I wanted to write SF, although I didn't start writing seriously until decades later.

When I did start writing my own SF stories, I consciously avoided reading any new science fiction. That may sound strange, but my thought was that I wanted to write my own story in my own way and I didn't want to be influenced by what other SF writers wrote.

Why science fiction? I've written other kinds of fiction but to me, science fiction is most challenging and satisfying. You have to invent your own worlds, project scientific possibilities to come up with believable scenarios, and create realistic, human characters to grapple with the problems arising from your story. You are only limited by your imagination. I love writing SF, and I don't think I'm ever going to stop.

LJ for MBR: You said you'd written other kinds of fiction. Anything published? And if you WERE to work in another genre, what would it be?

Marshall: I've written a few short stories but I haven't tried to publish any. This may be a project for the future. I've spent a good deal of time in East Asia and some of the stories have Asian themes. One is Lotus, the story of a Vietnamese refugee. Another describes a Vietnamese wedding in the States. I've also done travel journals of trips to China and Vietnam. Some of my politically incorrect output includes a fiction piece on an embittered Vietnam vet, a look at the Los Angeles of the future and some observations on public art.

I enjoy writing fiction. My other interests include American and world history, the rise and fall of civilizations, East Asia, the Vietnam conflict, genealogy, photography, art, cutting-edge science, military history and firearms. I'll certainly continue writing about non-science fiction topics. I enjoy creating believable characters and putting them in challenging situations. Personal experiences and interpersonal relationships are at the heart of most interesting stories and that's what I like to write about. I like adventure stories and will probably be doing more of them. Science fiction is always there, however. I just finished a short story on time travel. I can't seem to resist these stories. I get an idea and it consumes me, and I have to write it down. Once I get myself better organized I may try to publish some of these short stories.

Incidentally if anyone wants to see examples of my art, go to timberwolfpress.com, click on my book and click through the various categories. I've included illustrations of the characters and sketches of scenes from the book. Click on the pictures to enlarge them.

LJ for MBR: It's obvious that you have lived a fascinating life and have a curious facile mind. All those qualities shine through in your writing.

We've covered a lot of ground in this interview. Is there any question you wish I had asked, or any information you'd like our readers to know about you?

Marshall: I hope your readers have as much fun reading Soldier of the Legion as I had writing it. I can promise the sequels will knock your socks off. I'd like your readers to know that I really love to write, and I hope they enjoy my writing. They can order the book on-line at timberwolfpress.com. If they prefer e-books or the audio version, they can order that too at the same place.

Thanks very much for this opportunity to connect with your readers, Laurel. Best wishes to you, to Midwest Book Review and to all your readers.

LJ for MBR: It's been my pleasure, Marshall. And I look forward to learning the fates of Thinker and his intrepid group in Slave of the Legion!

As a reminder, readers can read more about Marshall Thomas, his book, his art, and his publisher at www.timberwolfpress.com.